Should we get rid of all-season tires entirely?

"No, I don't thank you for the fish at all" (notindetroit) 01/21/2016 at 13:06 • Filed to: None

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How about it? Just put on summers in the summer and winters in the winter? Or just say the heck with it and put winter tires on your car all year long, switching them out only when they get worn down for another set of winter tires that will see duty up to and through July 9?

All season tires just seem like a pointless compromise to me. They’re there so you don’t have to go down to the tire store and dirty up your back seat with the used set you’re bringing home, except you need to do that anyway. If you really want to not have to change your tires every season, just drive on your winters in August.

Hoccy > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 01/21/2016 at 13:11

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In Norway this is the case: Everyone has a set of summer tires and a set of winter tires. It is illegal to drive with tires that are unsuitable for the current weather, which implies that summer tires are illegal to use between October and April. Same with studded winter tires between April and October.

Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 01/21/2016 at 13:11

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Nah I’m good with my all seasons. Give me plenty of grip in all the weathers

Master Cylinder > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 01/21/2016 at 13:12

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Yes. Unless you live someplace where it doesn’t get cold. Then it’s summers only; summers all the way down.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 01/21/2016 at 13:15

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I’ll use the argument that my dad uses for me when I ask him for snow tires.

My car, on all-seasons that are highly rated for snow and rain (aka not performance oriented) have never gotten me stuck even in deep snow. As long as I don’t drive like an idiot, AWD allows me to go, and not being a nincompoop lets me turn and stop. Would my car perform a bit better on designated snows? For sure. Does that mean I’m gonna spend the extra $750-$1000 on a second set of tires and go get them switched out every year? It’s not worth it for me. Here in Nebraska, snow tire are advisable, but for many normal passenger cars, the car will still be safe to operate without them.

Jayhawk Jake > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 01/21/2016 at 13:15

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Eh. The few times it gets bad enough for winter tires here I can live with all seasons. And as fun as summer tires are, they’re pretty pointless for daily driving duties. My summers go on for autocross only.

EDIT: Also, my summer tires are really quite terrible in the rain. And it does rain on occasion when its warm enough for summers, so I’m safer on all seasons.

Alfalfa > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 01/21/2016 at 13:17

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My all-seasons suit me just fine. Also, I live in an 800 square foot apartment, with my wife, toddler, and dog. I have NO ROOM for 2 extra sets of tires.

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 01/21/2016 at 13:19

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All seasons are good enough for 75-85% of the population in the country. Why keep an extra set (or replace more expensive winter tires more often) when you drive in snow only once or twice per year?

Seat Safety Switch > Alfalfa 01/21/2016 at 13:20

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A lot of tire shops in Canada will have a “tire hotel” or storage service that you can add onto the purchase price of the tire for the life of the tire.

HammerheadFistpunch > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 01/21/2016 at 13:20

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No, M+S tires are not a pointless compromise and in many cases they are just the tool for the job. Its a range: Summer tires are formulated to work with extreme heat, and winter tires are formulated to work with extreme cold...why would you get rid of the tire that suits most people most of the time? M+S tires deal better with rain than do summer tires, they deal with a wider range of temperatures than do summer tires, they can evacuate more material (water, mud, etc) than can summers. They are just the right tire for most seasons and conditions, just not the extremes.

Mercedes Streeter > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 01/21/2016 at 13:23

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I have to agree with sm70. So long as you don’t buy the worst all-season tyres on the planet, you will be fine in most snow driving situations. Although I’ve had snow tyres once (they came with the wheels when I bought them), I’ve never actually needed them...and I’m driving a car that really needs traction in the snow. :)

Snow tyres have their place, but for most of us in the Midwest and even out in the East, all seasons will be just fine.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 01/21/2016 at 13:25

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bleh

My all seasons are rated crazy high for snow/ice and do a damn good job.

I have a front wheel drive Milan V6 on General Altimax RT-34 All Seasons.

The are shockingly good tires. I’ve driven through 9 inches of snow in them and done just fine.

It depends on your environment. Do you have mountains and hills? I’m in Michigan where it makes plywood look like a mountain so I really, really don’t need winter tires, I’m not slipping up or down anything.

If it was RWD I would look into the snow tires. Your car and your environment has to be what makes the decision for you.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 01/21/2016 at 13:25

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So what about city dwellers who street park their cars and live in sjoebox sized apartments? How are they gonna even store a second set of wheels, let alone swap them out?

HammerheadFistpunch > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 01/21/2016 at 13:25

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Also, not sure if you caught this when I posted it. it has more my feelings

http://oppositelock.kinja.com/do-i-need-wint…

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > HammerheadFistpunch 01/21/2016 at 13:26

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Let’s form a committee and get rid of a season or two.

spanfucker retire bitch > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 01/21/2016 at 13:26

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Nope.

vicali > Seat Safety Switch 01/21/2016 at 13:27

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The good ones are even inside :) lol, otherwise it’s usually the roof.

MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig > HammerheadFistpunch 01/21/2016 at 13:28

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I’m not sure I would call it “extreme” temperatures. Summer tires are fantastic at 50*F and up. Winter tires are fantastic at 50*F and colder. Once the weather gets to the point where daily highs are under 50*, I swap to winter tires. In the spring when temperatures start regularly breaking the 50* mark, the summers go back on. Usually the winter tires go on in December and come off in March here in VA. This year I didn’t have to put them on until a week or two ago. And as for price, the General Altimax Arctics were like $40-$45 on Tire Rack and went on a set of used factory steelies I picked up for $50. Can’t beat that with a stick.

HammerheadFistpunch > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/21/2016 at 13:28

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Nuts to that, I love my seasons and you’ll have to pry them from my cold, kinda warm, hot and kinda cold dead hands.

Nibbles > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 01/21/2016 at 13:28

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Does your vehicle(s) support a need for summer/sport tires? If not, all seasons will suit you well enough and be less expensive. I cannot not recommend a set of winter tires around Denver though.

Our S40 has a set of summers (Pilot Sport, getting replaced this spring) and a set of winters (Blizzak WS80). We’ll keep it this way because the summers afford a level of grip necessary for “spirited” mountain runs and they absolutely suck if there’s a micron of snow on the road. The Blizzaks were the best purchase we’ve made in quite some time.

The Dakota runs on BFG All Terrain TA/KOs all the time because fuck all, they do everything needed. On-road is quite livable, they provide good light offroad duties and perform quite well in the winter (could be better methinks, but whatevs. Gets the job done without issue)

My Saab has Falken Ziex ZE-912 all-seasons because - when it was running - they performed admirably in all conditions and the car didn’t put enough juice to the ground to justify performance tires. Never gotten the car stuck or slid on the ice/snow (whaddya expect? It’s a Saab) either.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 01/21/2016 at 13:28

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I would expect a newer tire with deep grooves and sharp sipes to do well in snow and on ice. Michelin X Radial, Goodyear Viva, et cetera.

HammerheadFistpunch > MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig 01/21/2016 at 13:29

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Summer tires are formulated to work best at higher temps, well above 50. Sure they work okay to 50, but they are on the fringes of their range, and 50 degrees is too warm for a dedicated winter tire, they are going to squirm and wear pretty badly at 50. I feel bad when I have to drive my car with the winters on when its warmer than 40. The other thing is that even summer tires aren’t the best choice for many places due to rain...which they generally do not excel in due to the diametric demands of low tread height for increased response and high tread height for water evacuation.

shop-teacher > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 01/21/2016 at 13:33

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I run all seasons on my truck April-November, and winters the rest of the time. It’s a 2wd stock pickup truck, so sticky “summer” tires would be laughable, if they even exist. I got by on just all seasons for years, but finally took the plunge on a set of winters about five years ago. It was nothing short of a revelation. I’ve always loved driving in the snow. As a matter of fact, the very first time I drove with my newly minted learners permit, there was a couple inches of snow on the ground. Driving in the snow is SO much more fun on winter tires! There is so much more grip!! I’d like to put a set on my wife’s AWD CX-5, but she drives so little that it’s hard to justify the cost. Man it would be fun though!

Birddog > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 01/21/2016 at 13:38

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Why don’t we have a set of tires for every weather condition?

Raining out? Better get those rain tires on.

Excessive Wind? You betcha ya need some wind rated tires.

Leaves falling off the trees? Jesus buddy! How’d you last so long without debris rated tires?

Sunny? Git yo summer rubber on son!

Snowing? We all know you’re instantly going to run off the road and kill a bus full of school children and puppies without snow tires. You potential murderer you! Fact!

I’d rather see a 24hour Trump marathon than another damn winter tire post.

CalzoneGolem > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 01/21/2016 at 13:42

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I’d rather run all season then summer tires. I don’t really care for summer tires at all.

vondon302 > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 01/21/2016 at 13:47

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All seasons on front snow tires on back thats how I roll in my p71 all year long. Damn that’s almost a rap tune.

Shane MacGowan's Teeth > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 01/21/2016 at 13:47

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Live in central TX. Gets into the 20's a few times a year, maybe once or twice snow or ice. And most everything shuts down those days anyway. So no, I don’t plan on buying another set for that.

Your boy, BJR > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 01/21/2016 at 13:48

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No that's really fucking stupid.

Desu-San-Desu > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 01/21/2016 at 13:59

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Yeah...no. All-seasons make all the sense in the world in Upstate South Carolina. We don’t have a lot of wintry precipitation, but what we do have is insane 30+ degree daily temperature swings for nearly half of the year. It’s too cold in the morning for summer tires- they just become grease. In the afternoon it’s too hot for winter tires, which just get chewed all to hell and back. This happens from September until April, with large swings during the course of each week. You would end up changing out tires on a daily basis because of the temperature swings.

Then there’s the weekly swings. In December we had over a week of 70's and 80's, followed by two weeks where it never crested above 40 and would get into the teens every night. So you’re left with 4 options:

1) Run summers and have zero grip for half of the day for half of the month.
2) Run winter tires and have them wear out exceedingly fast because most afternoons it’s above their designed operating range.
3) Switch between summer and winter tires on your lunch break for months on end.
4) Just get a good set of all-seasons and be a little extra careful if there’s a slim chance of ice or snow (we usually get ice, then snow on top of it here).

I have UHP-All-Seasons that beat 80% of summer tires in dry performance, 90% of summer tires in wet performance, and have over twice the treadware rating of most summer tires. They have excellent performance in the 90's and are just fine in the 20's or teens. Their winter precipitation traction isn’t awesome, but it’s enough to get me home during the 1-3 days a year we actually get snow on the ground here in S.C.

There is a large part of the country where the climate isn’t black and white; it’s mired in months and months of shades of gray and that is where all-season tires make plenty of sense.

BigBlock440 > MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig 01/21/2016 at 13:59

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And all-season tires work better than winters at 50, and better then summers at 50. There are many days that the temperature swings from 30-40 to 60 or 70.

wiffleballtony > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 01/21/2016 at 14:00

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No. The answer is summer tires all year. In winter you go on vacation to where it isn’t winter.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > HammerheadFistpunch 01/21/2016 at 14:17

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You may express your opinion at the committee meeting.

WiscoProud > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 01/21/2016 at 14:50

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I just use severe service rated tires on my truck. Much easier than swapping them out.

Bytemite > HammerheadFistpunch 01/21/2016 at 15:21

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I’m not sure where you got the idea that Summer tires aren’t good for rain. They are designed to provide superior grip in both dry and wet over all-seasons. Do you think because they are called “summer” they’re only good for use in San Diego desert heat environments?

All-seasons are fine if you drive like a granny. Summers are for real grip, dry or wet. Any summer tire will beat your “all”-seasons in rain.

HammerheadFistpunch > Bytemite 01/21/2016 at 15:25

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The idea is simple:

Tall treads evacuate more water than short ones.

Summer tires prioritize performance.

Performance means stiffer treads.

Stiffer treads means shorter treads.

Summer performance tires aren’t as good in the wet, they just aren’t. Also, I disagree about summer vs AS in the wet. A good high performance AS will outgrip a high performance summer in a heavy rain. For one there is the tread issue, the other is the fact that water is 3x more heat conductive than air meaning the heat that the summer tire needs to build up to reach its peak performance is harder to achieve in the wet. There is also...you know...this

Bytemite > HammerheadFistpunch 01/21/2016 at 15:32

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Summer tires, up until Extreme levels such as Direzza Z2 *specs, aren’t sacrificing any wet capabilities. Their tread depths are just as deep as All-season tires’. “High performance all-season” is an oxymoron. You don’t try to eke out performance from something that is clearly a compromise just for the added capability of freezing temperatures and snow.

Take the best all-seasons out in the rain against the max summers. It will be no contest. You just have to try summers one day man.

Also, those racing tires you put up there. If you compare those to the choices we had to make for street cars, it’d be autocross DOT street illegal, Streetable autocross, and Max performance summers. None of those are all-seasons or equivalent.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > vondon302 01/21/2016 at 15:36

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No. No it isn’t.

crowmolly > vondon302 01/21/2016 at 15:36

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According to the Internet you should be dead. Are you a ghost?

HammerheadFistpunch > Bytemite 01/21/2016 at 15:38

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I’ve tried summers. They are lovely, but I would rather have high performance A/S in the wet. High performance A/S being tires like the extreme contact DW, or Pilot sport A/S...they exist. The picture above is to illustrate that even in F1, deep grooves and lots of water evacuation is preferable in the rain to shorter tread blocks. comparing high performance summers (ps2) to high performance A/S (pilot sport A/S3) there is 23% more tread depth (8.5/32 to 10.5/32nd)

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/21/2016 at 15:41

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That is called moving to San Diego, CA

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig 01/21/2016 at 15:43

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I love my Altimax Arctics. Makes my Miata into a snowmobile in the snow! And even on just plain cold roads, they make the car so much more responsive.

Bytemite > HammerheadFistpunch 01/21/2016 at 15:50

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Yes they exist but still a compromise. The Continentals you are talking about for A/S is the DWS. Compare the wet traction of those to the wet traction of the fantastic DW. No contest.

And 8.5/32 is the lower end of the High perf summers. There are plenty of 10/32. 8/32 is more extreme summers.

Im not arguing that tread depth is important for wet traction. I’m arguing that you dont need hockey puck A/S rubbers. And I’m definitely arguing that those hard rubbers aren’t doing your wet performance any favors.

vondon302 > crowmolly 01/21/2016 at 15:55

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Not that I know of but the internet is never wrong so...... Boo!

vondon302 > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 01/21/2016 at 15:56

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Shows you what I know about rap music.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 01/21/2016 at 15:57

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Summer tires have much lower treadwear longevity so if you have no interest in performance, it would make more sense to go with an “All” Season for the summer. And then depending on where you live and what you drive, would necessitate snow tires in the winter. Lightweight, RWD, and no traction control in an area that normally sees enough snow in the winter plus frequent trips to the ski mountain certainly makes snow tires a must have. And then Auto-x in the summer time makes summer tires a no brainer for the rest of the year.

lone_liberal > vondon302 01/21/2016 at 16:19

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That’s how I used to roll in my ‘72 Camaro. It was fine right up until the day it wasn’t.

TahoeSTi > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 01/21/2016 at 16:26

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The only thing all seasons are good for is going 50,000 miles with out being replace. So for people who drive a lot of miles i guess they make since....My summer tires last about 10-15k miles my winter tires are about the same, but I replace my winter tires with 6/32nd of tread left....around here if your snow tires have less tread then that they make you put chains on.

MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig > HammerheadFistpunch 01/21/2016 at 16:27

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I autocrossed on All-seasons for like 6 years before I got the cash for other tires. In the same size, in pouring deluge-style rain, my Toyo Proxys R888 r-compounds are much better than the all-seasons I used to run.

DanimalHouse > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 01/21/2016 at 17:01

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Here in Western Washington, it’s pretty rare to get snow (or ice for that matter), and it rains quite frequently, doesn’t matter which month. All seaons are great here... it’s hard to justify snow tires when they only need to be used maybe 1-day per year. That is, unless you live high in the foothills or travel the pass often.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 01/21/2016 at 17:23

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That’s how people used to do it, that’s how many still do it in Canada and the center of the US.

No-season tires were created for all the environments where it rarely snows and to avoid all the tire swapping.

Lossy > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 01/21/2016 at 19:59

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Randomly chosen date is my birthday.